Diskussion:Astrid Benöhr
Just women record holder
She just holds the world records for women. 73:18:16 Emmanuel Conraux (FRA) Monterrey (MEX), 2005 http://www.iutasport.com/?page=records http://www.triathlonweb.nl/dutch/records.htm /HGJ345 20:41, 10. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Please note, that she was the overall record holder at that time. The article does not state, that she is the actual record holder. I heartly beg you to not edit this article anymore, because what you put in is all but German language. At the time when she ran the records, the IUTA wasn’t founded at all. Rgds --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 10:11, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
No changes before discussion please
If there is a problem with the rules or conditions under which those records of Benöhrs were run, please discuss the topic here or on the talk page of Ultratriathlon. Everybody will appreciate your arguments. You may use English or whatever your native language is. What is not appreciated is an edit-war or changes, that make the article unreadable. --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 10:22, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Ok, she holds the rekord in triple , Quadruple, Quintuple for women. You cant say that she holds the overall record cause she does not. You can claim that she in an unofficial race agianst herself and the clock got a time below the mens world record but you must clarify that it wasnt counted as world record. http://www.iutasport.com/?page=records /HGJ345 10:35, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- The article does not state that she is the actual record holder, so there ist nothing wrong with it and it is no contradiction to the recently added table on Ultratriathlon. Additionally, there is nothing to read about rules and whether her times are official or not. As you may have noted, I oversighted and accepted the table on the Ultratriathlon page. Anyway the table needs some clarifiication like since when the IUTA files records and under what conditions. --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 10:46, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Here is an article that reports about the 74h quintuple record, but it seems not very reliable. Anyway, it looks like everybody is copying anybody's reports. Any reliable information is welcome. --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 11:23, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Probably taken from wiki. Just fix this article so that it tells the truth or I will have to do it as good as I can. Now the article is full of errors. /HGJ345 11:25, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Here is an article that reports about the 74h quintuple record, but it seems not very reliable. Anyway, it looks like everybody is copying anybody's reports. Any reliable information is welcome. --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 11:23, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Well, I asked for some evidence and I asked some other questions. Please be so kind to answer them. Just to tell "the article is full of errors" without detailed information is simply not enough. What are the errors (except for the unofficial Deca world record)? --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 11:32, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- except! Why do you include errors?
- 1) She has not the double world record.
- 2) She is holder of the triple, Quadruple, Quintuple world record for women
- 3) as you said, deca
- 4) and so on
- There are so many errors that I simply dont see any reason to spend more time. Just fix the article or I will have to do it./HGJ345 11:45, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Well, I asked for some evidence and I asked some other questions. Please be so kind to answer them. Just to tell "the article is full of errors" without detailed information is simply not enough. What are the errors (except for the unofficial Deca world record)? --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 11:32, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- You either ease your tone or I will stop putting any effort in this matter. I do not tolerate being yelled at nor do I like unnecessary force, so will you please stay calm. It was not me who included errors. As far as there are errors, I am the last not to fix them, but not by the sake of putting new ones in. I corrected the errors No. 1 and 2. 3. Which are the "and so on"-errors? --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 12:21, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- I am sorry if I was unfriendly. It was not my purpose./HGJ345 12:37, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- We’ll forget about that one :-) --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 19:35, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- You either ease your tone or I will stop putting any effort in this matter. I do not tolerate being yelled at nor do I like unnecessary force, so will you please stay calm. It was not me who included errors. As far as there are errors, I am the last not to fix them, but not by the sake of putting new ones in. I corrected the errors No. 1 and 2. 3. Which are the "and so on"-errors? --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 12:21, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
Vermutliche Disqualifikation und Gründe
Diese Seite berichtet über Benöhrs Disqualifikation beim DecaTriathlon Mexico 1998. Die dort als Quelle angegebene Seite von David Blaikie ist leider nicht mehr aufrufbar. Hierfür sollte man noch einigermaßen plausible Quellen finden, bevor das in den Artikel eingebaut wird. --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 11:09, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
Weltrekord oder Weltbestzeit?
Ihre Weltbestzeit (damals noch nicht als Welt„rekord“ geführt) stammt vom Rennen in Luckau. Wo finden sich Quellen, seit wann die IUTA offizelle Rekorde führt? --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 11:09, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Hier findet sich ein Interview mit Benöhr. Dort berichtet sie, sie habe etwa 180 Ironman-Distanzen hinter sich gebracht. In der Einleitung wird ihre Leistung von Luckau als Weltrekord bezeichnet. Die Quelle (auch wenn es ein Interview ist) würde ich als recht zuverlässig einschätzen. --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 11:23, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- It is neither best time ever or world record. If I claim that I ran 100 meters on 9.30 yesterday it will still not be world record or best time ever. For the same reason my race isnt counted her race isnt counted. Required verifications are missing. The verifications include for instance crew that actually notice if the athlete does the actual distance. Especially important to have in mind in this case when we deal with an athlete which cheating by shortcuts is well documented. http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/ultramentor/results/mexico_deca.html /HGJ345 18:11, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Nobody ever made a case that she herself just said she had gone the distance that fast, the organizational crew of the race in Luckau took care of timekeeping and lap counting. There seemed to be quite a well organized umpiring crew. I remember the TV report on that particular event, but my recollection is not a valid source. The website you mention is the only one that reports a possible cheat of Benöhrs. Nevertheless there is no statement by officials if she was disqualified because she really cheated. However, the report originates from competitors, you could even think of an act of malevolence by those. Additionally, the report covers the poor organization in Monterrey, which must be taken into account when reading about such an incident. On the other hand there is also a possibility, that if she shortcut this might have happened unintentional. Going such distances sets one in a complete different state of mind, sometimes apart from all environment and reality. So the “well documented” deception lacks some essential information and is only reported on a single website, hosted under the wings of a private website mass hoster. To go from there and assume she always cheats, because she maybe did it once is not acceptable. Barring the truth about that specific race in Mexico 1998, her achievements are truly remarkable and outstanding. So I do not agree with your latest edit where you scrapped the word “herausragend”. Maybe we should wait for some more comments on the case, possibly on the discussion page of Ultratriathlon? Regards --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 19:35, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- That she cheated once has nothing to do with that her race wasnt counted. The simple reason as I stated above is that her race cant be verified as correct. I see nothing strange as this is the case in all sports. It is not up to others to prove that the athletes race wasnt correct. It is up to the athlete to have required verifications. I still wonder why she has 20% better times whenever she runs alone but still that has nothing to do with that her record wasnt counted./HGJ345 20:52, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- Nobody ever made a case that she herself just said she had gone the distance that fast, the organizational crew of the race in Luckau took care of timekeeping and lap counting. There seemed to be quite a well organized umpiring crew. I remember the TV report on that particular event, but my recollection is not a valid source. The website you mention is the only one that reports a possible cheat of Benöhrs. Nevertheless there is no statement by officials if she was disqualified because she really cheated. However, the report originates from competitors, you could even think of an act of malevolence by those. Additionally, the report covers the poor organization in Monterrey, which must be taken into account when reading about such an incident. On the other hand there is also a possibility, that if she shortcut this might have happened unintentional. Going such distances sets one in a complete different state of mind, sometimes apart from all environment and reality. So the “well documented” deception lacks some essential information and is only reported on a single website, hosted under the wings of a private website mass hoster. To go from there and assume she always cheats, because she maybe did it once is not acceptable. Barring the truth about that specific race in Mexico 1998, her achievements are truly remarkable and outstanding. So I do not agree with your latest edit where you scrapped the word “herausragend”. Maybe we should wait for some more comments on the case, possibly on the discussion page of Ultratriathlon? Regards --Goodgirl R.I.P. Bradypus 19:35, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
- About "herausragend"(outstanding). I removed it simply because you dont write an wikiarticle that way. It is journalist language. I think everyone that run so fast is outstanding but it is better to let the facts talk and let the reader decide. Thanx for bringing up the discussion. /HGJ345 21:00, 11. Mär. 2010 (CET)
Wikipedia ist eine Enzyklopädie die nach wissenschaftliche Standards erstellt wird. Bei den Rennen in Luckau und Kerpen handelt es sich um Rennen die völlig inoffiziell, ohne Wettkampfrichter, ohne offzielle Zeitmessung und OHNE jeden Anerkennung durch die damailgen nationalen wie internationalen Verbände waren. Auch die Aussage, sie sei die Frau die schneller als die Männer sei ist völliger Unfug. Dieser Mythos wurde von der Boulevardpresse gepflegt und beruht nur auf Aussagen von Benöhr. Bei offiziellen Rennen in Roth und Hawaii lag sie im Gesamtfeld und Frauenfeld weit hinten (siehe Artikel). Die Leistungen aus Lensahn können berücksichtigt werden. Bitte aber keine Wettkämpfe in den Artikel einpflegen, die keine Wettkämpfe waren. Simplex2 (Diskussion) 20:38, 3. Jan. 2014 (CET)
